When i put forward my opinion on this subject before, the reaction ranged from a gentle shaking of heads to a firm 'She's lost the plot', but as i read the White House is being urged to hurry the withdrawal of troops from Iraq i need to repeat it again, "Withdrawing the troops is wrong'.
The reason behind the call to bring the troops home is a selfish call where the lives of our boys and girls is put above the lives of the Iraqi's. America has 3500 and the UK 160 dead military while Iraqis numbered 750,000 a year ago.
While the troops are there we have recently seen suicide bombs claim horrendous numbers of fatalities, 7 July: 105 killed in Amirli, 19 June: 87 in Baghdad mosque blast, 18 April: 190 in car bombings in Baghdad, 29 March: 82 killed in double suicide bombing in market, 6 March: 90 killed in Hilla, 3 Feb: 130 die in suicide truck bombing, 22 Jan: 88 killed in Baghdad car bombings....and so it goes on.
To pull out now would just leave the Iraqi's at the mercy of the kind of people who manage to go about their deadly business despite the troops presence. The resultant bloodbath would be horrific. No, we shouldn't of gone have war in the first place but it has been done, we invaded their country, we filled it with terrorists and to just up and leave it now to save our own skins is not the right, or moral, option.
We will take more casualties and that makes me feel sick to think of, but not as sick as the Iraqi people who will be left twisting in the wind and at the will of people given a free hand to inflict even greater carnage.
We went into Kosovo to prevent a slaughter but we are prepared to leave Iraq in the throes of an even greater one?
13 comments:
I actually don't believe any American Prez will do that, no matter what they blather during their campaigns.
I have been reading about growing pressure in Washington with Democrats being joined by a growing number of Republicans calling for an early withdrawal.
It just seems the call is for the wrong reasons. As much as i want to see Americans and Brits come home safely, i don't want to see Iraq being left in such a state that we are see wholesale slaughter of innocent Iraqi's, especially as we caused it.
Lucy -
I agree with your reasons, and like you I feel that while the entire invasion was a horrible act of hubris, arrogance, bloodlust and deceit, now that it's happened there has to be some sort of repair.
The downside is, Iraq will never be ready to handle it's violence alone. Not unless there is another strongman who can bend all the factions to his will via torture and even more horrific violence than is currently there. Saddam, despite his evil, did one thing good: He kept Iraq from exploding.
The very nature of the place - from it's foundation at the hands of British and French pens drawing arbitrary lines on an otherwise unmarked map to the generational hatred and mistrust between the differing religious-ancestral-ethnic factions - is such that there are only two solutions: Allow it to disintegrate into several smaller countries, or be prepared for a perpetual occupation.
Iraq is much like the former Yugoslavia in this way. Much as Tito held that collection of ethnic-states together via his will, so did Saddam. And, once he was removed the internal pressure burst that country apart. The only difference was Tito died, while the US and UK committed an act of utter moral crime in this invasion.
The answer? My feeling is we either finally bring true international cooperation to the region (which won't happen because too many countries have selfish reasons to see this fail), or gradually withdraw troops all the while hoping that the Iraqis can pick up the slack. Otherwise, one way or another, and as sad as it sounds, a violent civil war is inevitable. With or without our presence.
My only hope is that somehow, someway, the people responsible for this disgusting act are made to pay. A trial at The Hague would be a very minor first step, with the guilty sentenced to hang for crimes against humanity and war crimes in the same way as Saddam a fitting end.
Ook ook
I don't think you've "lost the plot" at all, Lucy. I think your position on this subject is both ethically-based and valid.
However I disagree with it because I find the premise that the troops are 'keeping a lid on' violence to be a totally unconvincing one. On the contrary, I'd say that the foreign occupation is actually fuelling a lot of the carnage. Foreign occupations have had a habit of doing this. All throughout history.
I also disagree with your contention that "the call to bring the troops home is a selfish call where the lives of our boys and girls is put above the lives of the Iraqi's" because I honestly believe that the interests of the Iraqi population would be better served by withdrawal. Not well served obviously, because all hypotheses for the short/medium term in this country are now bad ones. But slightly better.
And I speak as someone who has umpteen times more sympathy for the civilians in the firing line than I do for the troops. Sorry, but that's the way I feel. The ordinary citizens didn't ask for any of this.
I fear you are correct about the civil war fez and i can see Iraq breaking up into 3 nations but if we pull out won't we just be back in the same situation as we were in Kosovo when everyone was calling for intervention to prevent what we debating leaving behind here?
I think it is selfish because it seems to be all about our boys getting killed out there, which is a terrible thing i agree, but it is just the wrong reasons to bring home our troops because they are dying albeit at a ratio of 1 troop to 10,000+ Iraqi citizen.
We have an obligation to not leave Iraq in a worse state than we found it.
Fez is right, it took an absolute son of a bitch like Sadaam to hold that powder keg together, and Iraq was gift-wrapped and handed to Osama as soon as we entered. Considering the fact that Sadaam was a secular leader and a Sunni, an intelligent administration would have tried to make an ally of him. Too bad we don't have one of intelligent administration thingies.
A bull in a china shop is never going to repair the plates it breaks. The best it can do is leave.
More hippy peace loving bullshit as is expected from you lucy, and you never disappoint.
Anonymous said:
More hippy peace loving bullshit as is expected from you lucy, and you never disappoint.
Fuck off, troll. Didn't you promise not to come around here any more?
Eeeek! An anony-mouse!
They make your skin crawl, don't they?
Thanks anon, i will reserve you a copy of my next book which i have titled 'Hippy, Peace Loving Bullshit and Other Animals'. I know you won't be disappointed.
Back to the intelligent discussion portion of our program:
I have been tempted to take the same stance as you, Lucy, because it does have some firm moral conviction to it. But Joe's analogy of the bull fits perfectly the reason why I ultimately can't agree with you. If this invasion had been orchestrated by those with a clue, perhaps you wouldn't be facing what seems to me to be quite a dilemma. It seems right that we should mop up our mess, but with the current U.S. administration there's no desire to change the dirty water in the bucket, and it's 4+ years old now.
I do understand the opposite view of pulling out the troops, and would like nothing more than to see all our troops back home but until we can truly say we have left Iraq in a better state than we found it, i just cannot back it.
O'Tim - I'm glad someone agrees with my bull! :-)
Lucy - "until we can truly say we have left Iraq in a better state than we found it"
That should have been easier, eh?
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